Kill Me Now

MoroseJew

Joined: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 46
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 10:35 pm Post subject: Ok Here Goes.

You the aborigine are out collecting berries one afternoon.
I track you from a distance. We know Usual hunter gatherer groups are small generally speaking usually no more than 35 40 people.
I follow you back to your camp, at night fall as you retire I and 100 of my men, I am from much bigger tribe we have a permanant camp from which we hunt more like a modern day town which eventually grew to be what we call cities. come to you we surround your camp and force you to come with us. Scared and hungry you follow for you have no choice. Once back at our camp after we feed you I (even though we do not speak the same language) explain to you we need your woman to breed with us in return you will have the safety and food and knowledge of our growing society.

If you decide to join us we go thru a ceremony to initiate you into our society but during this ceremony you are no longer a chief and just another worker in the group one who may make a mean spear or can make furs but you contribute to the clan and remain well fed and also have the benifits of experts who can teach you new skills. you will be safe warm and well fed compared to where you just came from if you decide no we will most likely take your woman and kill the men or just strip you naked and send you back out into the woods in the cold. Do you join the “Growing Society” which becomes what we now call modern society? or risk certain death.
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Gorticide

Joined: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 230
Location: nowhere

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 10:59 pm Post subject: kill me now

kill me now

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MoroseJew

Joined: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 46
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:52 am Post subject: Ok

There in lies the rub, the way I see it is I have now taken your woman and killed the men. or maybe the men decided to stay and you Gorticide being the Chief of your tribe we kill you. So it is really a moot point you picked extincttion over common sense hence the reason why the hunter gatherer is limited to a few thousand people in Africa maybe even less than that. By the way are you the aborigine on this board? If not I would still like to see his or her response. ciao
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jenni

Joined: Nov 04, 2002
Posts: 66
Location: NY/NJ

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:08 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi MoroseJew, I know the aborigine is suppose to answer this, but I just want to post my thoughts on this on your post. Now do you think that is fair a choice? What choice would you have made?

To be honest I agree with Gorticide.
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Gorticide

Joined: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 230
Location: nowhere

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 11:26 am Post subject: flaw in the system

As to why I can respond, there is a flaw in the system. All systems encroach upon themselves.

We are “ethically” not supposed to respond, but until the glitch is fixed, we still can UNTIL Our Oracle speaks. I am merely a twisted shaman – classic village idiot, fool.

You – clever antagonist – for reasons unknown to me (none of my business) have chosen to participate. I can only thank you for that, as it seems our mailing list folks may be struggling to connect.

How do you equate “genocide” with “me choosing extinction”?
Is that some kind of moral karate I need to learn?

Excuse us, moderator. I know you are free to delete us.
Very tense days, these.

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MoroseJew

Joined: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 46
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:17 pm Post subject: Reply

Morning Gorto and Jenni. (Gorticide with the Lack of inflection here I was not questioning if you could or should answer me only if you were the aborigine.) Hell with out the 2 of you I’d have no one to talk to.

Ok first to you Jenni, your question was do I think It is a fair Choice?

Well not to get all Philosophical, But yes I do. If you go back and look at the history of the Homonids from Cro Mag to Homo Sapien, they had some serious choices to make for survival. Einstein aside, Our first mistake was climbing down from the trees. Humans have always fought and killed one another. Have you ever seen a person outside of Beetle Baily in the comics with eyes on the side of their heads. Humans are predators plain and simple. we also have a curse as to see our own mortality which no other animal can do so our will to survive is fueled by our ability to forsee our own deaths. I will bet dollars to donuts that your (and I say your not meaning you directly Jenni more in a broader sense) worst fears of how you will die far out weight how you will actually die. Secondly my scenario would have beem your choice 21,000 years ago hell it would have been your choice 100 years ago. that choice is assimilate or die. its simple Heck even today the Native Americans (blah) that remain on the res and do not embrace modern practices suffer way more than those who have chosen to assimilate just look at the Casinos I am not saying that it is fair or right but fair and right do not enter into the equation. The reservation is still a mess because you cant live with one foot in both worlds. now a question to you Jenni have you ever visited a Reservation?

Aquire Target.

Ok Gorti, I do not equate Genocide with anything. The facts lie as they do because they are facts. Cultures die when a more dominant culture arises.

Cromagnon man =Gone
The first clan of cave men= gone
The first nomadic tribe = gone
the first stone age man =gone
the first semi permanant settlement = gone
the first iron age colony =gone
the first bronze age colony = gone
the pharos who bulilt the pyramids = gone
the romans = gone
the greeks = gone
get it?

Now go back to the era of the true hunter gatherer where is he now dead or assimilated into another culture. as for no chiefs we all have and have had cheifs. even this little clan on the net here,

take Native mind he is the Chief not the wizard he settles disputes and lays down the law of the fourm.

Jenni is as far as i can tell our lone woman and if this was a true clan she would be our cook and care giver, but if she was the only woman how would we breed we would need more woman.

you and I and pigmonkey for that matter are warriors that is why we butt heads so much

Rubber soul more of a shaman type alittle to heady to start swinging a club or battle axe at an enemy. and yes their would be enemies. Starvation is a powerful motivator.

verchie well he is more like the crazy indian in little big man
get my point. if this was a tribe we would all have to do our part to survive in the smaller tribe all went to hunt but could not sustain say more than 30 people. If something happend to Jenni say she died in child birth our clan would become extinct.

if we were lucky enough to find a mammoth carcass or kill some rabbits as we ate them another starving clan came upon us as we ate we would have two choices either invite them to join our clan or kill them or be killed to protect our food source. that is how it works outside the garden of eden. hopefully this other clan would have some woman and would want to join us. or we could just scare them off and go about our business chances they would die in the harsh winter that was coming leaving less humans who at one time were more endangered than Gorrillas are today. Yeah I know maybe that was not such a bad thing

New research suggests also that Cro mag and the man to follow more like ice age man existed at the same time and cro baby was either killed off in the ice or mated with by the newer guys. and that they may hve been assimilated in to the newer iceage culture and abondoned their old ways.

Sorry for being so disjointed and manic I have not had my java yet or a sufficient amount of sugar.
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TheAborigine

Joined: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 27
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:12 am Post subject:

Is anyone SCREENING these calls or what?! The ONE RULE of STA is that you are supposed to give me a REASON to live in your world. I’m well aware that you are capable of giving me a force! sheeshhh…

Having said that, your example is pretty hilarious. I’m a chief, but I’m out picking berries (the work of the women and children). You live in the city, but you are tracking me, and I don’t know it. One of your threats is to release me into the woods naked, which is like throwing a fish back into the water after you’ve caught it. Your permanent “city” is just a few miles from my nomadic camp, but we don’t have lookouts posted. And best of all, our group is small. Yeah, tell that to Custer….heheheh, but thanks for the giggles, I needed a good knee-slapper.

I think Gorticide more or less captures the spirit on this one. BTW, as Gorticide points out, we’ve chosen death over captivity many times. Apparently the Iraqis feel the same way, and they don’t even like berries.

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